Username: Password:

Sorry, you must be logged in to use the shoutbox!

Author Topic: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm  (Read 3060 times)

Offline likemindead

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 388
  • Liked: 0
  • Location: Amarillo
  • Back Home In Texas
    • View Profile
    • {musings}
Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« on: November 11, 2013, 12:22:20 pm »
Not looking to start a flamewar, just thought I'd share this article for your consideration.

http://www.usacarry.com/why-agencies-switching-9mm/
I see that there is evil, and I know that there is good, and the in-betweens I've never understood....

Offline kellymc

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Super Gun Enthusiast
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2009
  • Posts: 1057
  • Liked: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2013, 10:28:02 am »
I have nothing against the nine. But since all state agencies are going broke. it's all about money
This post is being monitored by our Surveillance State

Offline crashdummy

  • Trade Count: (14)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2010
  • Posts: 192
  • Liked: 0
  • Location: Amarillo, TX
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2013, 11:47:23 am »
Recoil recovery is a big issue. 

Offline 10-96

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 214
  • Liked: 0
  • I just had an idea... nope, guess it was only gas.
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 12:23:20 am »
I read an AGNews article last week where it said that the Tx DPS was switching from the Sig229 .357Sig to the S&W M&P 9mm.  The agency spokesman said that decision was based on increased capacity of the 9mm firearm over the .357Sig.  It wasn't REALLY all that long ago that their mantra was "If the 18 rounds we give you ain't enough- then no amount will be enough."  That was back when they carried the Model 28.
One of these days I'll say something totally brilliant- and it'll look so friggin cool when I add it here!

Offline Lano

  • Donating Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Super Gun Enthusiast
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 602
  • Liked: 0
  • Location: Gray County
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 01:14:33 pm »

More firepower is not always the answer.  I remember reading a story recently where a cop emptied his magazine (17 rounds) and hit the perp twice.  My thought is "where did the other 15 rounds go?"


Then there was the recent case in NYC where the cops and a perp were shooting at each other.  The cops shot three innocent bystanders.  You guessed it, they tried to blame it on the perp. 
"The enemy never sees the backs of my Texans."  -General Robert E. Lee

Offline dbart7387

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 31
  • Liked: 0
  • Location: Amarillo
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 10:11:28 am »
With the cost of ammo and somewhat shortage many agencies are getting less range time. This means not only is accuracy diminished but also the ability to learn recoil management.  Therefore it is easier to go with a lower recoil gun and give them more rounds to compensate for lack of proper training.

Offline Funtime

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 88
  • Liked: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 10:21:25 am »
DPS Suspends Use of New Handgun Over "Concerns"

http://www.texastribune.org/2014/04/17/dps-suspends-use-new-handgun-over-concerns/

The Texas Department of Public Safety confirmed Wednesday that it has stopped using its newest service firearm after “concerns” were reported by state trooper recruits who were the first to use the new Smith & Wesson M&P 9 mm handgun.

“The Department is currently doing additional testing and evaluation on the Smith & Wesson M&P handgun,” DPS spokesman Tom Vinger told The Texas Tribune in an emailed statement. “The DPS suspended plans to train with and issue the handgun to the current trooper trainee class, after minor concerns were raised when firearms training began during trooper training.”

A spokeswoman for Smith & Wesson had no immediate comment on the gun’s performance at the DPS training academy in Austin.

DPS announced last year that it was switching to the lighter 9 mm handgun with this year’s 114-member recruit class, which started training on Jan. 16. The 9 mm handgun replaced the .357-caliber SIG Sauer P226 pistol at the agency’s training facility in Austin.

Vinger said no money was paid for the guns. Instead, the agency traded 120 SIG Sauers for 120 of Smith & Wesson’s newer guns. They will use, for now, the SIG Sauer P226 pistol. The agency says that it will not cost any additional money to outfit the recruits with the older gun.

The agency decided to halt the use of the new handguns after a couple of the weapons experienced slight movement of less than 10 microns after repeated firing of about 3,000 rounds, Vinger said. A micron is one-millionth of a meter. Movement in a gun could affect accuracy. There were also bullet “feeding and ejection” issues. None of the performance issues resulted in any injuries. And so far, DPS has not been able to replicate these issues in subsequent testing, Vinger said.

These “concerns” were first reported as “malfunctions” last Friday by the gun news site TheTruthAboutGuns.com.

“We have been experiencing malfunctions during Recruit School firearms training, which is unacceptable and I have suspended the transition to the Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm,” an unidentified DPS source told the website.

The older SIG requires a harder pull on the trigger when fired for the first time, compared to the amount of pressure needed to fire the newer Smith & Wesson, Nick Leghorn, the website's testing and reviews editor, told the Tribune. Leghorn said there could be many reasons why recruits could have issues with the newer gun. It could be an ammunition problem or merely unfamiliarity with the new weapon.

“It could be a training issue,” Leghorn said, adding that both guns are popular among several law enforcement agencies around the country.

Offline likemindead

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 388
  • Liked: 0
  • Location: Amarillo
  • Back Home In Texas
    • View Profile
    • {musings}
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 08:58:13 pm »
I'd take the P226 over the M&P any day.
I see that there is evil, and I know that there is good, and the in-betweens I've never understood....

Offline likemindead

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 388
  • Liked: 0
  • Location: Amarillo
  • Back Home In Texas
    • View Profile
    • {musings}
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2014, 03:58:55 pm »
Here's another article on the subject.

"7 Reasons Why Cops Choose the 9mm Para Over the .40 S&W"

http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/7-reasons-cops-choose-9mm-40/?scrape=true
I see that there is evil, and I know that there is good, and the in-betweens I've never understood....

Offline machinegunnertim

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Gun Enthusiast
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 138
  • Liked: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Why Many Agencies Are Switching (Back) To 9mm
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 12:59:35 am »
Many people are quick to claim that the switch is only for financial reasons. And I really doubt that the increase in capacity is to compensate for proper training.

The main reason for switching to 9mm is because many studies have shown that the 3 common handgun cartridges are performing about the same. With increases in bullet design and propellants the 9 is just as deadly as anything else. Plus it's less recoil, higher capacity, and lower cost to boot! Why the hell wouldn't you move to 9mm knowing all that?! Don't believe me? read this- http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power     And make sure you read past the charts.

Of course none of this factors in to the military's predicament since they are stuck with having to use FMJ's. If you can only select from FMJ's then of course bigger and heavier is likely to better in most cases.